Who's the Hottest? Options

[tanyiren]

poor karen .......
she is really a beauty
but she is not like the hot mikoto
DDDD

[Swampstorm]

Fixed.
Whether or not Eri's popularity is in fact due to her own superiority cannot be determined by this poll.

Chicken-Egg. Nothing can be "determined" about anything. By participating in a poll, however, you make a tacit agreement that the quality being studied is reflected in the number of votes present - it's the assumption on which the poll is built. If you challenge those axioms, everything degenerates into relativism.

I suggest the following, instead:
Eri's popularity in this poll cannot determine my own aesthetic evaluation of her superiority or lack thereof.

I think Eri's personality is her greatest asset here. If I didn't know anything about her, I'd probably have a much harder time choosing between her and Toki, who is sadly missing from the poll.

[wzyote05]

finally, two weeks gone, and a lot has happened (damn Funimation, wait till S2 is finished to license damnit!)

Karen is still my favorite, but she loses a hot contest unfortuneately (she's more cute than hot...)

Eri is an obvious choice, but for me, I think Itoko is hotter (although I like Eri more). This is based on a few things:
1) Eri is what, 16 or 17, meaning she could still do some developing (a D sized Eri???)
2) Itoko is GORGEOUS, mature, and I'm a sucker for raven colored hair

It's kinda a lopsided coin toss for me, kinda like 55% itoko and 45% eri in terms of the hottest

Miko could be in the running, Tae too, and maybe even Youko, Yakumo, and Sagano

[terrukallan]

Chicken-Egg. Nothing can be "determined" about anything.

This is only true in general, not within a properly defined context.

By participating in a poll, however, you make a tacit agreement that the quality being studied is reflected in the number of votes present - it's the assumption on which the poll is built. If you challenge those axioms, everything degenerates into relativism.

I disagree. The assumption made by a poll is that the number of votes present reflects the prevalence of a given opinion on the item in question. Just pecause I can take a poll that, for example, shows that the majority of people believe the world is flat has no bearing on whether or not the world is in fact* flat.

My specific criticism here is that given the large Eri fan base present in these forums, how many of those fans will vote for Eri for "political" reasons rather than a true belief that she is the "hottest" among the potential candidates. If Eri fans are her fans primarily because she is "hot" this is a non-issue, but if instead (as seems likely) there are other reasons why people are her fans, for these people a "political" vote is not a true vote. In this case one must question the validity of the poll even within its own context. The problem of "political" votes is present in all fan bases, but given the large number of Eri fans compared to fans of other characters the potential for skewed results is greater.

*using fact in the scientific sense.

I suggest the following, instead:
Eri's popularity in this poll cannot determine my own aesthetic evaluation of her superiority or lack thereof.

Very true, but as I hope I have made clear it does not reflect my fundamental issue here.
To rephrase and summarize: My knowledge of the general makeup of the population being polled leads me to question the validity of this poll. Without proper controls I do not feel that this poll can satisfactorily determine the true opinions of said population with regards to the degree to which Eri does or does not possess "hotness".

[mootab]

yes, this is not a popularity poll, this is just to see the fans' choice in who is the hottest of the sukuran chics. of course you can't deny the fact that it has become somewhat popularity based, but that's prolly because many people like certain characters for their looks as well.

[terrukallan]

yes, this is not a popularity poll, this is just to see the fans' choice in who is the hottest of the sukuran chics. of course you can't deny the fact that it has become somewhat popularity based, but that's prolly because many people like certain characters for their looks as well.

That is not an unreasonable supposition, but it cannot be substantiated by this poll.

[random-no-sense]

Hmmm? Eri is the best, but for pure 'hotness' i'd go for cousin Itoko...

[myahkeitaro]

The fundamental thing here is to determine what "hot" specifically means.

If by hot you mean strikingly good-looking or sexually attractive, I think many of the Eri-fans votes are legitimate, because many have become her fans for that very reason.

Of course, then if hot = popular, this poll may not be as accurate as you'd want it.

But then again, why is she popular in the first place? Maybe because she is hot. What is "hot"?

What if what is "hot" for me is different than what is "hot" for you? Is this poll still valid? Nowhere is there a set definition of hot as far as this poll goes.

(anyway, I voted for Itoko)

[terrukallan]

The fundamental thing here is to determine what "hot" specifically means.

True, a definition of "hot" would be invaluable.

If by hot you mean strikingly good-looking or sexually attractive, I think many of the Eri-fans votes are legitimate, because many have become her fans for that very reason.

On what do you base this assessment? If we could properly determine that the vast majority of Eri fans are her fans because they think she is the "hottest" character this would alleviate most of my concerns.

Of course, then if hot = popular, this poll may not be as accurate as you'd want it.

But then again, why is she popular in the first place? Maybe because she is hot. What is "hot"?

There is a lack of information as to why Eri is popular. If we had more data we could begin to assess the validity of the poll. My point is that we cannot assess the validity of the poll with the data currently at hand.

What if what is "hot" for me is different than what is "hot" for you? Is this poll still valid? Nowhere is there a set definition of hot as far as this poll goes.

The lack of a proper definition is certainly an issue, but there is still the problem of whether or not any given individual respects that definition.

[mootab]

i don't think the definition of hot is such a problem, since everyone has their definitions based on social and personal standards. and for more data as to why eri is popular we would have to go through that ridiculously long list in the "why you like eri" thread. if anyone is willing.

[myahkeitaro]

Dang. When did this poll become such a serious discussion?

No poll is safe now; all are suspect.

[AngelsThesis]

lol if you wanted the popularity poll it shouldve just been who is your favourite character

i chose Akira cause i think SHE is the hottest =\

[mootab]

lol if you wanted the popularity poll it shouldve just been who is your favourite character

i chose Akira cause i think SHE is the hottest =\

i didn't choose her, but i know what you mean, after seeing those pics that terukallan posted....drool and nosebleed. i mean DAMN , she's got at least C's. watch out miko-chin.

[wzyote05]

poor karen, no one thinks you're hot. But don't worry, i'll still love you forever, even if you're not "hot". I'll take cute over hot any day (mainly cuz I can't get hot girls most of the time XD)

[Swampstorm]

Karen is still my favorite, but she loses a hot contest unfortuneately (she's more cute than hot...)

Eri is an obvious choice, but for me, I think Itoko is hotter (although I like Eri more). This is based on a few things:
1) Eri is what, 16 or 17, meaning she could still do some developing (a D sized Eri???)
2) Itoko is GORGEOUS, mature, and I'm a sucker for raven colored hair

Cuteness can be linked to hotness. That's part of the reason why I brought up "personality" in my post. On one side, there's static hotness, which only takes into account physical appearances, and on the other side, there's dynamic hotness, which considers the overall aesthetic response. Some people photograph better than others - does that necessarily mean that they are more attractive? Cuteness and personality can have a big impact on our perceptions of others, and their percieved hotness.

This is only true in general, not within a properly defined context.

We still run into problems, though, when the defining assumptions of the discussion are challenged. It's like multiplying both sides of an equation by zero - sure, you can do it, but you can gain no further insights from it after that. I'm just ensuring that people don't retreat into a relativistic stance just out of convenience. That's what I meant by a 'tacit' agreement.

If I wanted to be critical about this poll, I would point out that all the poll entries are female.

My specific criticism here is that given the large Eri fan base present in these forums, how many of those fans will vote for Eri for "political" reasons rather than a true belief that she is the "hottest" among the potential candidates. If Eri fans are her fans primarily because she is "hot" this is a non-issue, but if instead (as seems likely) there are other reasons why people are her fans, for these people a "political" vote is not a true vote. In this case one must question the validity of the poll even within its own context. The problem of "political" votes is present in all fan bases, but given the large number of Eri fans compared to fans of other characters the potential for skewed results is greater.

Again, it's a chicken-egg situation. Are you an Eri fan because she is the most appealing character to you, or did she become the most appealing character to you because you classified yourself as an Eri fan? Both cases, however, produce an equivilent result, because of the "foot in the door" principle. Were I to belong to the latter group, the act of saying that Eri is the most appealing character to me has a psychological influence - such that she becomes the most appealing character to me. Thus, regardless of intent, for every vote that you see for Eri, you will have one fan who considers her to be the most appealing character.

The fundamental thing here is to determine what "hot" specifically means.

What if what is "hot" for me is different than what is "hot" for you? Is this poll still valid? Nowhere is there a set definition of hot as far as this poll goes.

Hotness is a general aesthetic judgement concerning appeal. It's a word similar to beauty - everyone has their own set of subjective standards by which they judge beauty. This poll simply sees how well the characters conform to everyone's personal standards. One thing to note though - it's an overall assessment that takes in more factors into account than just mere physical characteristics - how that character is presented is equally important. For example, out of all of the characters in the series, Yakumo is most often presented in traditional clothes - which gives her the appearance of being traditionally feminine. That doesn't necessarily mean that she has the most traditionally feminine appearance - Tenma and Eri, perhaps by virtue of their longer hair, both wear yukatas to greater effect. The presentation of a character has a big impact on their percieved hotness - it's all psychological.

[terrukallan]

We still run into problems, though, when the defining assumptions of the discussion are challenged. It's like multiplying both sides of an equation by zero - sure, you can do it, but you can gain no further insights from it after that. I'm just ensuring that people don't retreat into a relativistic stance just out of convenience. That's what I meant by a 'tacit' agreement.

Though multiplying both sides of an equation by zero allows one to prove fun and nonsensical things, I am not challenging the fact that there are assumptions made in a poll (or any discussion, investigation, etc.). To sum up my point of view in the most concise way possible, I am of the opinion that the assumptions in this poll are not sufficiently well defined.

If I wanted to be critical about this poll, I would point out that all the poll entries are female.

That demonstrates a bias on the part of the poll creator, but does not necessarily invalidate it. My criticisms concern bias on the part of those participating in the poll, which also do not necessarily invalidate it. However, in both cases it must be made clear exactly what the poll is showing. The poll creator's bias is readily visible to anyone who examines the question and possible answers. The bias of those taking the poll is more elusive.

Again, it's a chicken-egg situation. Are you an Eri fan because she is the most appealing character to you, or did she become the most appealing character to you because you classified yourself as an Eri fan? Both cases, however, produce an equivilent result, because of the "foot in the door" principle. Were I to belong to the latter group, the act of saying that Eri is the most appealing character to me has a psychological influence - such that she becomes the most appealing character to me. Thus, regardless of intent, for every vote that you see for Eri, you will have one fan who considers her to be the most appealing character.

I feel there is a distinction between "appealing" and "hot". If you do not, our disagreement is over simple definitions and thus pointless. However, if you agree that there is some difference between "hot" and "appealing" it is only reasonable to think that there may be Eri fans who became fans because she was the most appealing or beame fans and then determined she was the most appealing but in neither case decided the was the "hottest" character. Given my understanding of "appealing" it seems to me that any given person's favorite character, as you suggest, would also be the one they find most appealing. If people vote on the basis of which character they find most "appealing" rather than "hottest", we have a simple popularity poll rather than a poll of "hotness".

Dang. When did this poll become such a serious discussion?

Just because a discussion involves no obvious humor or sarcasm does not mean that those involved take it seriously.

No poll is safe now; all are suspect.

Only to the extent that everything based on assumptions (namely everything ) should be carefully examined to see if any conclusions drawn are in accord with the initial assumptions. Obviously this requires identifying the starting assumptions.

[otacu]

Imo Eri is the hottest. Why you ask? Because Eri has everything a hot girl should have.

She is "hot" outside with her killer body and she is "hot" inside with her wild and full of pride character. A girl who can perform a Shining Wizard and a flying kick (when dressed in a Kimono) can only be called hot. She has that burning spirit inside her that make her waaaaaay hotter than other more composed and calm girls. I won't even mention my ultimate fetish for black bikini... ops i just did.

'Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury i'd like to submit this document as ultimate proof and prove without any chance of doubt the "Hotness" of my client.'



Warning. Staring at this picture can be addictive.

[Ryan]

Only 4 forAnegasaki Tae? Blasphemy!!!

[redaxe21]

most peolpe say yakumo is the best and i agree with them but the hottest for me is eri sama. her godess looking makes me feel --censored---.

he..he..he.

[Swampstorm]

Though multiplying both sides of an equation by zero allows one to prove fun and nonsensical things, I am not challenging the fact that there are assumptions made in a poll (or any discussion, investigation, etc.). To sum up my point of view in the most concise way possible, I am of the opinion that the assumptions in this poll are not sufficiently well defined.

Multiplying by zero may prove some fun things, but none of which are specific to the equation under consideration. That's the pitfall.

List off the assumptions that you see as you notice them.

That demonstrates a bias on the part of the poll creator, but does not necessarily invalidate it. My criticisms concern bias on the part of those participating in the poll, which also do not necessarily invalidate it. However, in both cases it must be made clear exactly what the poll is showing. The poll creator's bias is readily visible to anyone who examines the question and possible answers. The bias of those taking the poll is more elusive.

See below.

I feel there is a distinction between "appealing" and "hot". If you do not, our disagreement is over simple definitions and thus pointless. However, if you agree that there is some difference between "hot" and "appealing" it is only reasonable to think that there may be Eri fans who became fans because she was the most appealing or beame fans and then determined she was the most appealing but in neither case decided the was the "hottest" character. Given my understanding of "appealing" it seems to me that any given person's favorite character, as you suggest, would also be the one they find most appealing. If people vote on the basis of which character they find most "appealing" rather than "hottest", we have a simple popularity poll rather than a poll of "hotness".

Your favourite character need not be the character that you find the most appealing. For example, some people might choose Harima as their favourite character because he commands respect with them, but they might find Eri to be more attractive by virtue of having a preferred gender.

Now, as I pointed out earlier, the only choices available in this poll are female. So, while a Harima fan might find Eri to be more attractive, Eri fans who find Harima to be more attractive are unrepresented by the poll. They then have one of two choices:
1) Answer the question based on their relative preferences involving the choices available.
2) Choose "Other".
3) Not participate.

Unrepresented voters who choose #1 are still following the guidelines of the poll, since the question asks which of the choices available is the hottest. Unrepresented voters who choose #2 do not raise any issues unless the "Other" category becomes the dominant one - in which all "Other" votes could represent a single character who isn't listed on the poll.

Thus, appeal and popularity need not go hand in hand. Characters may be generally percieved to have one or both traits, depending on the gender preferences and subjective responses of the participating voters.

Regarding "appeal" and "hotness", it would help if you supplied your own criteria for evaluating hotness. "Appeal" seems to refer to a general subjective response, whereas the term "hotness", as yet undefined, may or may not specifically refer to the subjective response to a set of sensations (in other words, the visual appearance and sound of the character in question). Note that by "subjective", I don't mean "opinion", but rather the personal importance attached to a particular "object" (by which I mean something that is external to your self).

Since we see only light, rather than objects (which by contrast are formed by our minds), the importance that we percieve in these "objects" is necessarily subjective in nature. When confronted with a collection of external stimuli that we associate with a particular "object" (that is, an image of a character and the sound of their voice), we then call to mind the general subjective importance of that "object", which is the means by which we distinguish this set of stimuli from its "background".

As a result, we cannot separate our general subjective response to an "object" from our specific response to its associated sensations (sight, sound, etc.). An example of this can be seen in Harima's reaction to Tenma - we know that Tenma is not considered to be attractive by most of her classmates, but yet Harima's feelings for her have the power to transform his perceptions of her visual attractiveness (Harima-vision). If we cannot seperate our perceptions of a character's visual and auditory attractiveness from our overall response to their "appeal", then there is no point in defining "hotness" in the limited sense of their sensory attractiveness. Thus, for all practical purposes, "appeal" and "hotness" are one in the same. Seduction begins in the mind, and we're only capable of seducing ourselves, after all.